COMMENTS
one suggestion on the engine reconditioning is that AURM340550A Conduct non-destructive testing be included as a core subject as how can a person check the servicability or the repair of a cylinder head or block without knowing about NDT.
AURT334708A Carry out Boring and Honing of cylinders .
The meaurement aspects to assess the final honed finish seem to be insufficient in the DRAFT. Much engine reconditioning work revolves around providing new or reconditioned waear surfaces to rotating or sliding parts within engines. Therefore measure of success with reconditioning processes hinges around surc face character.
Ideally surface texture analysis should be included.e.g training and assessment in use of precision surfarce texture analysis equipment. The bearing area,surface texture character (finish in Ra or microinch value) , honing pattern crosshatch intersect angle are critical for proper engine piston ring seating and sealing , oil control and provided longest engine wear life. There appears to be little reference top this important aspect in this module . This same concept could be applied to AURT334808A, AURT334972A,AURT301359A or any otrher DRAFT module where surfactes are reconditioned or created.
Thank you for your comments Steve. Much of the feedback I have received has revolved around the smaller tolerances and precision finishes required on modern engines. I am working on the units of competency, following other industry feedback, to reflect current practices. Please continue letting us know how the qualification can be improved.
Regards,
Stephen Wrathall
Training Package Specialist
I have noticed the technical trade courses seem to be sum what dumbed down , meaning there is 36 units of compentency in the cert. 111 in Automotive mechanical technology yet in many other cert. 111 courses there is only 15 to 20 units , given the skill of mechanics both technical knowledge and practical work surely the trade course should recognized at cert 4 level, as for the old aprenticeship system the certifcate of proficency is not worth the paper it printed on , aprenticeships are too out dated and young people now realize that they serve only 4 years of slave labour and slave wages that explains why young people dont want to do trades, also what need s to be noted is why is the mta alllowed to govern and regulate the industry and the rates of pay? take the automotive trade award of say $19.00 for a mechanic its nothing more than poverty pay, why can electricains and bricklayers earn $45.00 an hr. on wages yet highly trained mechanics earn less moeny than some gofer stacking shelves at coles supermarket ? curious to note there is no award strucutre for university graduates , they just graduate and rean big $$. The mechanic training needs to lose some of its unit s in the course and do away with the apprenticship system , these so called new apprenticeship centres may only sign up 1 apprentice aweek or even a month in some locations surly a big waste of tax money at work , and please dont tell me about unions they were created for the banks by the banks to keep the blue collar tradies working on a minium collective wage to ensure they would need a bank loan in order to pay off the house over their working life.
Auto Skills Australia said:
Thank you for your comments. The current qualifications for the automotive industry are under review and it is the intention of ASA the embed increased rigour in the qualifications without limiting their flexibility. Your input in this process is welcomed and you can follow this process vial the ASA website and newsletters. The debate as to whether or not a qualification is a certificate III or a certificate IV has to be guided by the nomenclature of the Australian Qualification Framework (AQF). The AQF provides concise descriptions of the outcomes required in a qualification and also expresses the qualification level depending on the range and depth of skills and knowledge required for a job role. ASA will continue to closely analyse each of the automotive qualifications in the review process and will seek to align them to the AQF level that reflects each specific job role.
In respect to pay rates for apprentices I have been undertaking a series of industry forums around the country recently and some of the feedback on this issues has been quite interesting. Generally employers are reporting that they rarely pay award rates as it is difficult to attract and retain staff at that level. In extreme cases employers are reporting paying body trades people in excess of 100K annually due to chronic skills shortages and a need to attract and retain highly skilled staff. I appreciate this may not be the norm but it appears that the market availability of labour is the real determiner of wage rates in most states.
The single biggest challenge for the industry is to ensure it profiles itself as a workplace of choice and creates a work environment that is attractive and provides the challenges that many young and mature works seek in their day to day work.
Thank you again for your feedback.
I wish to be on the record as retracting some earlier comments regarding the function and performance of ASA. You would be aware that I had made some provocative remarks that were made in haste and without knowing the full facts. It has been my privilege to work with Mr Stephen Walthall and Peter Miller in assisting in the rewriting the competencies for engine reconditioning. It has been a revelation to me to see the work being put in seeking a positive outcome for an industry sector I care deeply about. I am overwhelmingly grateful for the opportunity given to me in to assist all engine reconditioners. I am also delighted that ASA is seeking to regenerate our industry via meaningful and educated training regimes. I am relieved that ASA has put us on the ‘right track. I look forward to further positive communications with your organization.
there is a real need for a skills set in the tyre /steer/ susp area
i have a lot of clients that mainly do tyre fitting and just wheel alignment and the certificate is not really applicable in this area for some of these businesses and the problem arises that they are not able to access any funded training so not a lot get done
also a suitable skills set would be inspect steering inspect suspension and carry out wheel alignment operations
Kevin, thanks for your post on the website. The Certificate II in Automotive Mechanical (AUR 20705) does have specialisations in steering and suspension, tyre fitting (heavy) and tyre fitting (light). Producing a Training Plan that is appropriate for your business and the needs of the trainee would be a matter of negotiation with a Registered Training Organisation. Skill Sets are not designed to replace qualifications, they are single units of competency or combinations of units, which link to a licence or regulatory requirement, or defined industry need. Some examples of a defined industry need may include providing pathways between qualifications or specialist skills in addition to a qualification. ASA has commenced analysis of existing qualifications and this may include the development of specific skill sets, this is an item already on our Continuous Improvement Register. Your input will be used to inform this process.
Whilst AUR 20705 Cert II does have some descriptors that can be used in conjunction with this qualification, I believe there is a problem with the wording of the packaging rules relating to the use of these descriptors.
By way of example
“Cooling system
The following five (5) units are recommended for this specialisation.
AURT202170B Inspect and service cooling systems
AURT202608A Carry out radiator repairs
MEM05003B Perform soft soldering
MEM05004C Perform routine oxy acetylene welding
MEM05007C Perform manual heating and thermal cutting ”
The use of the term “recommended” and not “must” or “are mandatory” completely defeats the purpose of having descriptors, The way the current packaging rule read, any descriptor could be assigned to the Parent qualification, irrespective of which units were selected, providing they meet the packaging rules.
The situation exists (according to the way the packaging rules are written) that whilst particular units are recommended for a descriptor to be used they are not mandatory so therefore a descriptor of lets say “Cooling Systems” could be assigned to a qualification that was comprised of compulsory core and suspension based units.
Whilst it would seem obvious that this is ridiculous, it would also seem obvious that if a particular descriptor is to be used then there should be some commonality between the units required to have this descriptor applied.
Cheers,
Jeff Gittos
Thank you for your comments. The current qualifications for the automotive industry are under review with the intent of increasing the rigor of the qualifications as well as reflecting contemporary occupational roles. Part of this work will include the removal of the term ‘recommended’ from those qualifications that have specialist streams. The draft qualifications will be on the ASA website later this month, your input and feedback is welcomed in this process. You can follow the progress of this work via the ASA website, blog posts and newsletters. You can subscribe to the newsletter via the following link: http://www.autoskillsaustralia.com.au/news-media/register-for-updates/.
Thank you again for your feedback.
A couple of comments on the draft Cert II automotive Mechanical Servicing Operations qualification.
This qualification states “Job roles/employment outcomes
The Certificate II in Automotive Mechanical Servicing Operations is intended to prepare new employees or recognise and develop existing workers who are performing servicing and maintenance of vehicles in an automotive service or repair business.”
From both Road Transport and Off Road Mobile Equipment perspective, it would seem that having AURT210170A Inspect and service braking systems (which specifically applies to hydraulic braking systems) as a mandatory core unit is uneccessary. This unit should be an elective to allow for substitution for both Light Automotive and Motorcycle where applicable.
Regards,
Jeff Gittos
I noticed there are no Pre-Requisites listed on any of the U.O.C’s . Are some going to be added ? i.e level of mathmatics for speeds & feeds of machinery.
Chad,
Thanks for your feedback.
I assume your comment is related to the Engine Reconditioning qualification. There is no intent to introduce pre-requisites for the units contained in this qualification as the current units cover the required performance, knowledge and skills for this occupation. We are currently looking at a number of fundamental issues regarding mathematics, formulas, volumes, etc that may be well placed in foundation skills competencies. There is also a project currently being undertaken by Innovation and Business Skills Australia (IBSA) that is developing a Foundation Skills Training Package, which is aimed at addressing literacy and numeracy issues, and this package may well address the issues of mathematics, etc for VET in schools, pre-apprenticeships, etc. There are a number of industry forums being conducted by IBSA as part of this project and you may wish to visit their website http://www.ibsa.org.au to find out more.
What changes are being concidered for the corriculum in Automotive Mechanical Apprenticeships in the TAFE system. This is and has been for a lot of years a matter of urgency.
Secondly who does the ASA consist of and what was the process for selecting persons to sit on thr advisory board
Thank you for your comments. The current qualifications for the automotive industry are under review and it is the intention of ASA to embed increased rigor in the qualifications without limiting their flexibility. Your input in this process is welcomed and you can follow this process via the ASA website and newsletters. You can subscribe to the newsletter via the following link: http://www.autoskillsaustralia.com.au/news-media/register-for-updates/.
With regards to ASA’s structure, Board and the Sector Committees you can find out more including how to join a specific sector committee by selecting either the “About” or “Advisory Structure” links on our website.
Thank you again for your feedback.
AURT322666A Repair/retrofit air conditioning systems
With R12 not being able to be purchased for a considerable amount of years now, I believe it is time to consider removing the term “retrofit” from the unit title. I do think it should stay as part of the performance criteria however, to be considered as part of a possible repair process.
Thanks, Tony, for the feedback. Changing the name of the unit of competency to, perhaps, Repair Air Conditioning Systems (and leaving the term retrofit in the Performance Criteria) may make it difficult for this unit to be found when someone is searching for a unit relating to retrofitting. It could be argued that the term Repair, when considered with air conditioning systems, includes all the skills and knowledge relating to Retrofitting, but I am not sure.
With the introduction of new refrigerants (e.g. R-1234yf) and the likelihood that we will see them in Australia, the skill of retrofitting a vehicle to a new refrigerant is very relevant, and perhaps this job is a separate job from that of repairing and bringing a system back to original. Perhaps a new unit is required for Retrofitting and the original changed to Repairing. These are the questions we need answers to, as we review the qualifications, and I would encourage stakeholders in the Air Conditioning industry to have their say.
Steve Wrathall
Training Package Specialist
This comment originally posted in Marine.
Mark said
Submitted on 2011/11/11 at 3:03 pm | In reply to Auto Skills Australia.
Being in the induatry myself I have seen many troubles ares where the industry is potentially putting lives at risk with unqualified motorcycle mechanics. My remark for this will be ‘hopefully it doesn’t take a death to create a solution to a hidden and obvious problem’.
Your thoughts Jeff?
ASA views the motorcycle / leisure sector as importantly as any other when it comes to qualifications, and firmly believe that a suitably qualified person should be the minimum requirement when it comes to vehicle service and repair – regardless of the class of vehicle. Of course it should always be the case that a qualified tradesperson is the only person allowed to perform service or repair work, and I would hope that there are very few examples of the person you describe in your email. Your point about unqualified mechanics working in industry is beyond our control, and I would hope that right-minded employers would only seek to employ qualified tradespeople when it comes to performing servicing or repairs safely.
With the motorcycle segment of the automotive industry consistently reporting growth, the motorcycle retail, service and repair industry must have accessible qualifications that serve their intended purpose – having the right mix of competencies that fit the contemporary job role. As you may be aware, a person wishing to enter the automotive trades as a motorcycle mechanic currently must enrol in an AUR30405 – Certificate III in Mechanical Technology, where motorcycles is then selected as the specialisation. An initial review of this specialisation indicates that there may be the need to revisit the motorcycle service and repair segment, and engage with motorcycle repair shops and technicians themselves to seek input and comments regarding the present qualifications’ suitability.
As stated, qualifications such as motorcycle mechanic are currently under review, as part of our continuous improvement plan here at ASA. The project to review all qualifications that form part of the AUR and AUM Training packages will be undertaken with extensive input from industry and other key stakeholders. Based upon your comments and obvious concerns for the well-being of the industry, I encourage you to register your interest in being part of the reference groups that will be formed to carry out the review. Reference groups will have the responsibility to assist ASA staff with the review and building of Training Package qualifications for the future needs of automotive training.
Regards,
Jeff Heaney
Re cert111 light vehicle motor mechanic apprenticeship course.
I attended a meeting at Box Hill College reguarding proposed change to the course.
the intention appears to be to bring the course up to date with current technolgy and to develop alternative shorter specilised couses.
We are a medium sized repairer speciatising in one make of vehicle. We do all repairs inhouse including electrical, we want our mechanics to be able to cover the full range of repairs, this helps aleviate boredom, promotes better product knowledge, improves diagnostic skills, and thus provides better service, Which in turn justifies better wages and thus our abilty to retain staff.
Whilst I welcome the plan to bring the course up to date, I am concerned about any proposal to reduce the number of core modules. given the increasing complexity of modern vehicles.
Some of the mdules we would like to see as core modules apart from the normal mechanical, are
ABS, ESC, SRS, ERC, climate control, a large component of Electrical / Electronics, Intergrated drivetrain systems, bus systems and fibre optics. these are all standard componentry of many modern vehicles, I would also like to see a module covering an employees ethical and legal responsibilties to his employer and the customer.
Electivives should include such things as 4 wheel drive systems, terrain control systems etc. given the numer of 4 wheel drives in service, As a one manufacturer specialist we have to do our own vehicle specific training inhouse, I have found this much easier to do if the apprentice has a good
basic understanding of fundermental priciples of operation, this understanding has been getting less and less as new systems appear. I am against the current trend to reduce the length of apprenticeship, 4 years seems to be the minimun time needed to gain enough practical experience to justify a Mechanic Qualification. Pehaps one answer is to reposition the motor mechanic qualification As a “General Automobile Technition” to set it apart from a specialised shorter course such as “Underbody”
I welcome your comments
Owen
Thank you Owen for your feedback.
I think that we are recognising, by providing a Certificate II in Servicing and smaller Certificate III’s in various specialisations, that there is an increasing number of different job roles in the Automotive industry. However, we are not suggesting that there is no place for the traditional Certificate III.
At the moment the Certificate III in Automotive Technology has three compulsory units and thirty-three elective units. We are proposing dramatically increasing the number of core units, to ensure the qualification reflects the job role of a “General Automobile Technician’ (to use your term), so that, whatever a person may choose in their electives, this person has been trained in those units that the industry has agreed are core to the job role. The proposed Certificate III in Automotive Light Vehicle Technical Operations (for example) has twenty-two core units and fourteen elective units.
I agree that the technical areas you have listed are everyday parts of a modern vehicle, but where do we draw the line and say this is where Certificate IV begins? Are we trying to cram too much into Certificate III, and is this one of the reasons few people are doing a Certificate IV? Do we need a new unit around legal responsibilities, or could this be included in a existing Customer Relations units?
Hi all, having been involved in the debate regarding the changes and up dates to the AUR12 from day 1, and being a very long time participant in the heavy vehicle & heavy machinery repair and service industry I find and salute ASA for the work they, along with the likes of the CVIAQ, QSA, Skills Tech and many more to give industry part of what is required. Personally, I strongly believe that with today’s technology all apprenticeships should be a certificate IV & education level in line with that of under graduates.
Regards,
Edwin C Crisp (miame,Amsoe uk,amoretti,mirte nz,MIMiuk)
I have some concerns with a unit of competency in the new AUR 12 training package called Diagnose and repair mechanical fuel injection systems AURLTF3001. This unit replaces the old AUR05 unit AURT303166B. the term Mechanical fuel systems in my view refers to the fuel systems found on old Volvos and Saabs in the late 1980’s (which pre dates me). I think if you dropped the term ‘Mechanical” the unit would be more relevant to today’s fuel systems. In addition in the unit AURLTF3001 on page 5 in the required skills and knowledge it states “technical skills to use workplace tools relating to the repair of motorcycle braking systems, including the use of:” and again on page 7 it states ‘present motorcycle in a condition that complies with workplace requirements’ I we could get a little clarification for this unit it would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you Paul for your feedback. AURLTF3001 Diagnose and repair mechanical fuel injection systems is a unit about the older style Mechanical or Continuous fuel injection systems, such as K-Jetronic. This unit is an elective in the Light Vehicle Certificate III and is intended for those who may be working in those workshops and/or specialised businesses where this type of system is still being seen. Because AURT303166B Repair petrol fuel systems has been deleted from the Training Package, this new unit and AURTTF3006 Diagnose and repair petrol carburettor systems are there to fill the needs of technicians still working on older technology.
For todays technologies the four units AURTTF2001 Service petrol fuel systems, AURTTF2002 Service diesel fuel injection systems, AURETR3023 Diagnose and repair electronic spark ignition engine management systems and AURETR3024 Diagnose and repair electronic compression ignition engine management systems are expected to fulfil the needs of industry.
With regard to the word ‘motorcycle’ appearing in the AURLTF3001 unit, we have noted this and placed it on our Continuous Improvement Plan for rectification.
Looking at the new AUR12, the required knowledge on the AURLTX3002 Repair transmissions – automatic (light vehicle) seems to contain less than the required knowledge of the AURTTX2003 Inspect and service transmissions (automatic). Is there a reason that when undertaking the service of the automatic transmission one would require greater knowledge than if the repair was being undertaken, for example the need for a working knowledge of the three laws of compound planetary gear sets and the five laws of simple planetary gear sets
Thank you Shay for your feedback.
We are engaged at the moment in writing the new standards for the Training Package and this involves a review of all units of competency. These two units are being written at the moment and will be put on our website for feedback. All sections of the unit will be reviewed and the Knowledge Evidence section is one that will be expanded. When the new units are available for comment, please feel free to let us know your thoughts.
It appears that the ASA is going to end up being a smoke and mirrors organization run by people that have an ability to do the warm and fuzzy presentations instead of rolling up their collective sleeves and doing some hard work like going out into industry and gathering statistical data that makes up our industry.
I’m astounded to see Polytechnic West is listed as a training provider as year, they sold their entire engine reconditioning equipment.
I have already discussed the scoping document with Stephen Wrathall at which time he gave me an undertaking that he would add more relevant information to the document as it appears on the web site. At the time of writing this response nothing had been changed!!!
Neil, thanks for your feedback. Since I met you last I have both visited and spoken to a number of engine reconditioners throughout Australia. As part of the consultation strategy for this qualification I am planning to meet with a number of key stakeholders interstate, however in the interim I have recently distributed a draft qualification along with nine units of competency for specific industry consultation and feedback.
With regard to Polytechnic West, I would ask you to talk to them directly, but my understanding is that they are still delivering a qualification that is related to Engine Reconditioning.
ASA sends out Scoping Statements to advise stakeholders of our particular projects and their timelines. These Scoping Statements do not lend themselves easily to a regular update process, so we have decided to implement a regular update system for each Automotive sector in our e-newsletter (that will be available on our website) so that anyone can see where we are up to on a particular project. While this part of our website is being implemented, regular updates will be sent to stakeholders connected with each project via email.
Stephen Wrathall
Training Package Specialist
Auto Skills Australia